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Вы здесь » У КАМИНА » Планета Земля - есть механизм новой энергии » Шаровые конкреции- есть новый источник энергии - 2


Шаровые конкреции- есть новый источник энергии - 2

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Лженаука на форумах

Сообщение kutuyach » Пт апр 04, 2008 2:29 am
Уважаемые модераторы! Демократия, свобода слова- это все отлично. Но этот домен, насколько я понимаю, финансируется МГУ. А значит, нам и карты в руки. Давайте все же стараться придерживаться академической науки. Пусть Тарасенко и иже с ним публикуют свои непроверенные гипотезы в одноименном форуме. А то загадили все ветки.

Позвольте процитировать определение лженауки, высказанное лауреатом Нобелевской премии Гинзбургом :
"Определение можно дать такое: лженаука - это всякие построения, научные гипотезы и так далее, которые противоречат твердо установленным научным фактам. Я могу это проиллюстрировать на примере. Вот, например, природа теплоты. Мы сейчас знаем, что теплота - это мера хаотического движения молекул. Но это когда-то не было известно. И были другие теории, в том числе теория теплорода, состоящая в том, что есть какая-то жидкость, которая переливается и переносит тепло. И тогда это не было лженаукой, вот что я хочу подчеркнуть. Но если сейчас к вам придет человек с теорией теплорода, то это невежда или жулик. Лженаука - это то, что заведомо неверно."

Тарасенко ! Если вы думаете, что ваша лженаука (а у т.н. ХЯС именно такая репутация) многим интересна - вы ошибаетесь. Вы либо невежа, либо жулик.

Прошу прощения у коллег за резкость.

kutuyach
     
    Сообщения: 152
    Зарегистрирован: Сб май 19, 2007 6:08 pm
    Откуда: Stanford University, School of Earth Sciences

http://forum.web.ru/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2313

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http://www.msevm.com/forums/index.php?showforum=192
Мои темы закрыли на этом форуме.... ну я их отматерил по полной программе. всех прошу игнорировать этот форум

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http://i042.radikal.ru/1104/70/ebe61267af88.jpg
http://i072.radikal.ru/1104/88/79c5346d790a.jpg
http://s003.radikal.ru/i204/1104/12/9690afbb2c36.jpg
http://i010.radikal.ru/1104/64/613adfc82581.jpg
http://s004.radikal.ru/i206/1104/eb/c22029908ec8.jpg
http://s59.radikal.ru/i164/1104/9d/b2eecfad9a3b.jpg
http://i025.radikal.ru/1104/0f/a50b22de38a0.jpg
http://s16.radikal.ru/i190/1104/fd/ed27f0f6efe2.jpg
http://s016.radikal.ru/i337/1104/2f/39726d277f54.jpg
http://s51.radikal.ru/i134/1104/62/b29b96608f0f.jpg
http://s006.radikal.ru/i214/1104/29/ae3f78bcd98e.jpg
http://s009.radikal.ru/i308/1104/2d/f2eab853b5fe.jpg
http://s51.radikal.ru/i133/1104/65/b1c9e53600e0.jpg
http://s55.radikal.ru/i147/1104/4e/977402a726be.jpg
http://i019.radikal.ru/1104/bd/bd082d94bcba.jpg

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http://radosvet.net/spy/neob/6923-megal … aniya.html
Все это создало природа. а мегалиты воспроизведены по законам природы, электричеством-это главный породообразующий механизм, а тектоника плит скольжения делает такие барельефы кирпичные-блочные-изучив их механизм мы получим новую энергию...

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325

Doubts and questions about the Rossi device continue

    Doubts and questions about the Rossi device continue.

    Why can’t Mr. Rossi give smaller demonstrations with the help of his production-line devices (which will later be fitted into the 1 MW device) in front of newer (serious and sincere) investigators with newer (serious and sincere) doubts and questions?

    Doubts and questions about the Rossi device continue – I mean not the freak or insulting doubts and questions but the serious and sincere ones.

I disagree. After the Feb. 10 test, I have not seen any serious doubts by knowledgeable people. I have seen only nonsense. For example, over the last few days at the Vortex discussion group, a person named Beene has been saying the cell works by extracting 16 kW of heat from the cooling water circulation pump, which is a ~20 W unit. I explained to him:

1. That is a violation of the conservation of energy;

2. Even if the pump was much larger, the water is not restricted inside the cell so no heat can be extracted from it;

3. Heat added to the water by the pump mechanical action is below the inlet thermocouple so it cannot be measured by flow calorimetry.

He did not understand any of these points. I have encountered many people with similar notions. There were legitimate doubts before Feb. 10, and there may be some left now, but I have not seen any.

I agree that it would be delightful if Rossi would do more demonstrations. I would like nothing better. On the other hand we cannot fault him for the choice of people he welcomed to the last demonstration: Essen, the chairman of the Swedish Skeptics Society, and Kullander, the chairman of the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences' Energy Committee. See:

http://lenr-canr.org/News.htm

I have been in contact with Rossi for a year or so, and I read his blog pretty carefully, so I know what he is thinking.

He says that additional demonstrations will not convince mainstream scientists or the journals or mass media, and they will do nothing to enhance his business plans, so they are a waste of time. He says the only thing that will convince people is direct sales. He may be right about that. So far, only NyTeknik and the Washington Times have taken any notice. No other mass media has covered him. Very few mainstream scientists believe the claims. Even when I tell them that he instantly convinced Essen and Kullander. They say he must be a sleight of hand magician who fooled them, or they say Essen and Kullander must be criminals involved with him in a conspiracy to defraud Defkalion. These are same kinds of responses I have been hearing for 20 years about mainstream cold fusion. This is Robert Park's view of cold fusions. Park himself has not a word about Rossi, but he has often written in the Washington Post and elsewhere that cold fusion was never replicated, and researchers who claim they replicated are lunatics or criminal frauds. He does not mince words. This is the mainstream view of cold fusion. Rossi has had no impact on it. Actually, he has made the opposition worse, because his claims are so flamboyant. Some people willing to admit there might be a marginal effect, close to the noise and probably chemical, but they are outraged when I tell them there is a reactor that inputs 80 W and outputs 16 kW for hours or weeks.

(Park has been told about Rossi. I assume he has said nothing because he has lost interest. I doubt he is worried that he might have been wrong. He told me that thought has never crossed his mind. He is calmly and absolutely certain he is right. He also told me that he has never bothered to read a paper on cold fusion, and I am sure that is true, because he knows nothing about the subject.)

Rossi says none of this will change, and no mainstream journals, corporations or universities will allow cold fusion research until he cuts the Gordian knot by selling machines. I can't fault him for thinking that, when I see the rabid attacks against him. On the other hand, Essen and Kullander asked him to send machines the Universities of Uppsala and Stockholm. He says he will after production begins. I wish he would do it sooner!

I wish he would put more emphasis on making small reactors for demonstrations, and prototypes for the Defkalion factory. For some reason, he is spending all of his time on the 1 MW reactor. I suppose he has a contractual agreement to make it. Any contract can be modified. Modifying this would surely benefit both parties. I cannot understand why the 1 MW reactor has such high priority.

I wish the thought of making it had never crossed his mind. I have told him many times that he could convince the whole world and get a billion dollars in investment capital with what he has now, if he would only give a few of these things to universities and corporations under non disclosure agreements (NDA).

He is very cordial and friendly, but he will not take this or any other advice from me. He is determined to make the 1 MW reactor and deliver it on time.

One reason he is concentrating on this is clear. He will not be paid by Defkalion until he delivers the 1 MW reactor, and they test it and confirm it works. Then -- according to Greek press reports -- he will be paid a one-time royalty of 100 million euros. He does not want anything after that; he is giving Defkalion full rights. He has spent all of his personal fortune developing this. Naturally, he wants to be paid soon. However, as I said, I see nothing special about a 1 MW reactor. Why not change the contract to make it 100 kW? Or 10 kW, for that matter? The 1 MW reactor itself has no more business value than a 10 kW reactor would. Defkalion wants the technology; they do not want one particular prototype reactor of a particular size. It is as if the Wright brothers in 1904, just after Kitty Hawk, had refused to demonstrate or sell any airplanes until they could perfect one that flies 6 and a half hours carrying 6 passengers. Igor Sikorsky did that in 1914. See:

http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/RothwellJthewrightb.pdf

That was a worthy goal in 1914. It was ambitious. It would have been an insane goal in 1904.

- Jed

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326

Doubts and questions about the Rossi device continue
Respected ICCF16 participants

Doubts and questions about the Rossi device continue.

Why can’t Mr. Rossi give smaller demonstrations with the help of his production-line devices (which will later be fitted into the 1 MW device) in front of newer (serious and sincere) investigators with newer (serious and sincere) doubts and questions?

Doubts and questions about the Rossi device continue – I mean not the freak or insulting doubts and questions but the serious and sincere ones. Every production-line device has to be individually tested. Mr. Rossi should therefore periodically hold demos and answer the newer doubts and questions not just with clever brush-off words but with live activity of his production-line devices (which will be built in into the larger device and have to be tested beforehand). Is that not possible?
Feed-back from serious-minded investigators should be welcome.

(I wonder why Steven Krivit is hardly online these days. There is no new news on his website or his blog since many days. Is nothing happening (except Fukushima – but even here the newsline is dead)?)

V. Godbole

--
NEU: FreePhone - kostenlos mobil telefonieren und surfen!
Jetzt informieren: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/freephone

Doubts and questions about the Rossi device continue

    Doubts and questions about the Rossi device continue.

    Why can’t Mr. Rossi give smaller demonstrations with the help of his production-line devices (which will later be fitted into the 1 MW device) in front of newer (serious and sincere) investigators with newer (serious and sincere) doubts and questions?

    Doubts and questions about the Rossi device continue – I mean not the freak or insulting doubts and questions but the serious and sincere ones.

I disagree. After the Feb. 10 test, I have not seen any serious doubts by knowledgeable people. I have seen only nonsense. For example, over the last few days at the Vortex discussion group, a person named Beene has been saying the cell works by extracting 16 kW of heat from the cooling water circulation pump, which is a ~20 W unit. I explained to him:

1. That is a violation of the conservation of energy;

2. Even if the pump was much larger, the water is not restricted inside the cell so no heat can be extracted from it;

3. Heat added to the water by the pump mechanical action is below the inlet thermocouple so it cannot be measured by flow calorimetry.

He did not understand any of these points. I have encountered many people with similar notions. There were legitimate doubts before Feb. 10, and there may be some left now, but I have not seen any.

I agree that it would be delightful if Rossi would do more demonstrations. I would like nothing better. On the other hand we cannot fault him for the choice of people he welcomed to the last demonstration: Essen, the chairman of the Swedish Skeptics Society, and Kullander, the chairman of the Royal Swedish Academy of Sciences' Energy Committee. See:

http://lenr-canr.org/News.htm

I have been in contact with Rossi for a year or so, and I read his blog pretty carefully, so I know what he is thinking.

He says that additional demonstrations will not convince mainstream scientists or the journals or mass media, and they will do nothing to enhance his business plans, so they are a waste of time. He says the only thing that will convince people is direct sales. He may be right about that. So far, only NyTeknik and the Washington Times have taken any notice. No other mass media has covered him. Very few mainstream scientists believe the claims. Even when I tell them that he instantly convinced Essen and Kullander. They say he must be a sleight of hand magician who fooled them, or they say Essen and Kullander must be criminals involved with him in a conspiracy to defraud Defkalion. These are same kinds of responses I have been hearing for 20 years about mainstream cold fusion. This is Robert Park's view of cold fusions. Park himself has not a word about Rossi, but he has often written in the Washington Post and elsewhere that cold fusion was never replicated, and researchers who claim they replicated are lunatics or criminal frauds. He does not mince words. This is the mainstream view of cold fusion. Rossi has had no impact on it. Actually, he has made the opposition worse, because his claims are so flamboyant. Some people willing to admit there might be a marginal effect, close to the noise and probably chemical, but they are outraged when I tell them there is a reactor that inputs 80 W and outputs 16 kW for hours or weeks.

(Park has been told about Rossi. I assume he has said nothing because he has lost interest. I doubt he is worried that he might have been wrong. He told me that thought has never crossed his mind. He is calmly and absolutely certain he is right. He also told me that he has never bothered to read a paper on cold fusion, and I am sure that is true, because he knows nothing about the subject.)

Rossi says none of this will change, and no mainstream journals, corporations or universities will allow cold fusion research until he cuts the Gordian knot by selling machines. I can't fault him for thinking that, when I see the rabid attacks against him. On the other hand, Essen and Kullander asked him to send machines the Universities of Uppsala and Stockholm. He says he will after production begins. I wish he would do it sooner!

I wish he would put more emphasis on making small reactors for demonstrations, and prototypes for the Defkalion factory. For some reason, he is spending all of his time on the 1 MW reactor. I suppose he has a contractual agreement to make it. Any contract can be modified. Modifying this would surely benefit both parties. I cannot understand why the 1 MW reactor has such high priority.

I wish the thought of making it had never crossed his mind. I have told him many times that he could convince the whole world and get a billion dollars in investment capital with what he has now, if he would only give a few of these things to universities and corporations under non disclosure agreements (NDA).

He is very cordial and friendly, but he will not take this or any other advice from me. He is determined to make the 1 MW reactor and deliver it on time.

One reason he is concentrating on this is clear. He will not be paid by Defkalion until he delivers the 1 MW reactor, and they test it and confirm it works. Then -- according to Greek press reports -- he will be paid a one-time royalty of 100 million euros. He does not want anything after that; he is giving Defkalion full rights. He has spent all of his personal fortune developing this. Naturally, he wants to be paid soon. However, as I said, I see nothing special about a 1 MW reactor. Why not change the contract to make it 100 kW? Or 10 kW, for that matter? The 1 MW reactor itself has no more business value than a 10 kW reactor would. Defkalion wants the technology; they do not want one particular prototype reactor of a particular size. It is as if the Wright brothers in 1904, just after Kitty Hawk, had refused to demonstrate or sell any airplanes until they could perfect one that flies 6 and a half hours carrying 6 passengers. Igor Sikorsky did that in 1914. See:

http://lenr-canr.org/acrobat/RothwellJthewrightb.pdf

That was a worthy goal in 1914. It was ambitious. It would have been an insane goal in 1904.

- Jed

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Jed,

I agree with everything you said except your last paragraph. The Wrights/Sikorsky analogy is useful in a scientific sense, but not in the sense of modern business. Also, do you know that Rossi does not have internal milestones such that he needs to show those smaller reactors in order to receive continued funding? I would expect that Defkalion has those milestones but considers their existence proprietary. That would make good business although a hinderance of the scientific method. Also, the US, and many other countries, believe that the future of power generation is distributed and a 1MW generator is a viable product prototype. After receiving such a prototype, Defkalion can move from science to engineering without the need for intrinsic scale-up. Having spent 25 years in Silicon Valley, I've learned that the scientific method doesn't usually drive "the next best thing" future invention. In fact, the scientific method usually devalues the invention by slowing things down and not protecting the IP.

Let's all hope that Rossi is correct and that he can meet this 1MW goal without stumbling along the way.

Fran

On Apr 20, 2011, at 7:43 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote:

> Vasudev Godbole <godbole@gmx.de> wrote:

>
>     Doubts and questions about the Rossi device continue.

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Нефть. Исчерпаема ли?

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ZORG написал(а):

Нефть. Исчерпаема ли?

НЕт, изучай тему...

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Тарасенко написал(а):

НЕт, изучай тему...

Так я не спорю, я просто привёл ссылку на новость по Вашей теме.
Там под текстом ссылка http://zaryad.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=216

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